1 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:16,879 I'm ready. 2 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:18,719 21 hours. 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,600 Suppose he's dead, Hauk. 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,159 If I come back without him, you'll burn these things out. 5 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,559 Get 'em both back, Plissken. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,519 Remember, once you're inside, you're on your own. 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,719 Oh, you mean, I can't count on you? 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,360 No. Good. 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,959 In the dystopian future of Escape from New York, 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,239 the island of Manhattan has been turned into 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,439 a maximum-security prison. 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,079 Walled in, the criminals have been left to their own devices. 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,959 Once you go in, you don't come out. 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,159 However, as this satirical science fiction thriller begins, 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,759 the President has jettisoned from a hijacked Air Force One, 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,879 and landed in the lawless city. 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,999 Escape from New York is one of the key 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,079 action films, sci-fi films of the 1980s. 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,079 And that is a time when there are a lot 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,399 of great films in both of those genres. 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,639 The great thing about Escape from New York 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,919 is how well it stands up. 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,559 In retrospect, and watching it again over the years, 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,199 you realise that this is a film that is actually built to last. 25 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,079 It redefines science fiction. 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,279 I mean, I think that science fiction had never been like that before, 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,199 that the dystopias were either bleak and terrifying, or... 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,119 Well, that was it really, that was what science fiction dystopias were, 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,959 there was no sense that you could enjoy it or have fun with it. 30 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,559 There was no sense of adventure. It made science fiction cool. 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,439 Yeah, it was. It was absolutely bad boy science fiction. 32 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,759 There is only one man with the skills and the cold-blooded determination 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,639 to break into the prison and get him out. 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,399 Kurt Russell's mesmerically cool 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,879 and deeply anti-heroic "Snake" Plissken. 36 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,520 "Tracer test confirmed at 20 hours 17 minutes and 30 seconds." 37 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,119 New York was first colonised by the Dutch. 38 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,239 It was named after an English King, James II, when he was Duke of York. 39 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,519 The Statue of Liberty came later. 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,800 It was given to New York by the French. 41 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,759 New York must surely be the most spectacular city in the world. 42 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,519 It's built on several islands and it's split into five boroughs, 43 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,840 but the most famous is Manhattan. 44 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,119 The once great city of New York 45 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,199 becomes the one maximum-security prison for the entire country. 46 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,239 A 50-foot containment wall 47 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,719 is erected along the New Jersey shoreline 48 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,240 across the Harlem River and down along the Brooklyn shoreline. 49 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,760 It completely surrounds Manhattan Island. 50 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,480 All bridges and waterways are mined. 51 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,039 The United States police force, like an army, 52 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,039 is encamped around the island. 53 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,279 There are no guards inside the prison, 54 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,480 only prisoners and the worlds they have made. 55 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,919 The rules are simple. 56 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,360 Once you go in, you don't come out. 57 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,679 Released in 1981, John Carpenter's blackly comic, 58 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,159 genre-crossing marvel is still a sight to behold. 59 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,439 It is the perfect example of the director's gift 60 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,999 for elevating B-movie concepts 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,680 into whip-smart, cynical explorations of America. 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,759 John Carpenter was a true independent filmmaker, 63 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,039 and a filmmaker who grew up completely fascinated 64 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,879 by two different things, 65 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,279 both of which he saw on television and in the movies growing up. 66 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:20,759 One was westerns, particularly the westerns of Howard Hawks, 67 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,159 like Rio Bravo starring John Wayne. 68 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,799 And the other was, sort of, the sci-fi programmers, 69 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,759 the B-movies of the era, about alien invasions, 70 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,319 about dystopian attacks, 71 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,399 things like Invasion, USA. 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,119 So those two things come to, kind of, inform 73 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,359 so much of his filmmaking going forward, 74 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,719 which is very much science fiction 75 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,279 with the kind of structure of an old-school western. 76 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:47,959 He is an original because he is one of the first 77 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,679 of the growing band of independent filmmakers, 78 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,359 who can actually not just make their films, 79 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,799 but also create music for themselves. 80 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,319 This is one of the things he comes out of a, kind of, 81 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,759 almost a rock and roll mentality 82 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,039 in a sense of... there's a sense of him 83 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,519 that he's a kind of post-hippy 84 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,959 who has actually gone into movies. 85 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,719 His concerns are the same, 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,999 but he's got a kind of an anarchic view of the world. 87 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,839 But he is able to manifest these 88 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:20,919 in largely thrillers, horror films, 89 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,319 and occasionally, the comedies. 90 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,039 He is most renowned for being the horror guy, 91 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,919 I think he called himself the horror guy, 92 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,279 but that's not strictly true, is it? I don't think so. 93 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:32,799 I mean, I think if you look at the works that he's done. 94 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,279 Horror does feature, but not, I wouldn't say, 95 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:37,959 in terms of the number of projects that he's done, 96 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,519 it's particularly high. 97 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,639 It's because, I think, his horror films were so remarkable, 98 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,359 Halloween and The Thing, 99 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,639 incredibly famous genre-defining films. 100 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,079 But I mean, he did an Elvis biopic, you know, he did... 101 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,359 With Kurt Russell Yeah, absolutely. 102 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,079 He's a genre-jumper. He- He's always... 103 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,799 Again, hinting at the western, 104 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,239 but he's always trying out new kinds of genres. 105 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,319 He once said that he would've loved to have worked 106 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,719 in the Hollywood studio system of the '40s and '50s 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,359 because I think he loved being moved onto different genres 108 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,599 and trying to work out different ways of doing things. 109 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,479 Made on a limited budget and shot almost entirely by night, 110 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,159 Carpenter creates an authentic version of New York 111 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,839 as a living underworld. 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,879 It's interesting because now when we see Escape from New York 113 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,479 we see it as a really quintessential John Carpenter film, 114 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,639 a film which features Kurt Russell, 115 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,999 who's in many of the Carpenter films from this time, 116 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,479 and a film which is, you know, science fiction, 117 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,879 which features this incredible, kind of, pulsating synth score 118 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,639 created by Carpenter himself, 119 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,399 which is another hallmark of his films. 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,439 But really in many ways, at this point, 121 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,039 he wasn't fully formed as any one sort of director. 122 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,679 He'd made this incredible standout horror film in 1978 with Halloween. 123 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,679 He worked with studios a little bit on his own projects, 124 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,199 he did comedy sci-fi, 125 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,199 so he wasn't yet a director that you could pigeon hole 126 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,319 and I think he kind of remained a director 127 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,479 that was constantly playing with 128 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,879 the various genres that he worked in. 129 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,999 He had made a great thriller based on a western, 130 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,919 Assault on Precinct 13, 131 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,079 he had made a very funny science fiction film, Dark Star, 132 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,079 and he had made a horror film, Halloween. 133 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,119 But this was something else. 134 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,439 This was a kind of combination of genres. 135 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,919 This was a a dystopian science fiction thriller 136 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,519 and he was bringing together, I think, 137 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,199 various interests into one single film. 138 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,159 Also what made a difference in Escape from New York 139 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,239 was that it had a political edge to it. 140 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,279 None of his earlier films did. 141 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,599 And this one had definitely 142 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,600 a sort of rage against the establishment. 143 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,119 Alongside a snarling world-weary Russell, 144 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,719 are masters of off-beat performances 145 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,079 such as Harry Dean Stanton, Ernest Borgnine, 146 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,799 Donald Pleasence, Adrienne Barbeau, 147 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,359 Isaac Hayes, and Lee Van Cleef. 148 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,759 I think that the key to its greatness is, 149 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,799 first of all, Carpenter's innovation, 150 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,039 the fact that he is the first, he is so original in this story. 151 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,199 You know, say what you will about sci-fis of the past 152 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,399 or westerns of the past that influenced him, you know, 153 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,639 neither of those things account for the creativity of his story 154 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,279 and his casting with Escape from New York 155 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,799 To cast Isaac Hayes, this striking, flamboyantly-dressed soul singer, 156 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,159 as the lead villain, 157 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,679 I mean, there's so many brilliant touches in this movie 158 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:43,679 that make it special 159 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:46,879 and make it, kind of, one of the great '80s movies. 160 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,839 Well, he is a phenomenal improviser. 161 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,119 He's a phenomenal talent spotter. 162 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,679 And he must be one of the most persuasive men in Hollywood. 163 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:00,879 He has had people act with him 164 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,519 who are at the peak of their careers, 165 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,519 doing the most unusual projects. 166 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,559 He's great at spotting new acting, 167 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,199 or technology talent. 168 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,399 So, he's very, very good at identifying people, 169 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,719 with his producer, Debra Hill, I should state, 170 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,359 people who have got potential 171 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,799 and people who are very, very well known for certain things, 172 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,679 but who'll work with him because he will give them something else to do, 173 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,679 he will allow them to stretch themselves. 174 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,239 But he's also very good at cutting corners 175 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,959 in a way that doesn't really show on screen. 176 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,839 So, I mean, you know, 177 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,719 he decides to shoot a film, 178 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,079 which is about the whole of Manhattan walled off. 179 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,279 And at no point in the film do you realise, really, 180 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,079 that he's not shooting in Manhattan at all. 181 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,799 He manages, he's very good at his use of camera, 182 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,279 at his use of location, at his use of night-time in this case, 183 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,679 at hiding the way that he's cutting corners. 184 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,359 And it really looks like it's a film that costs 185 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,039 far more than the $7 million it cost him. 186 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,399 Escape from New York is as bracing as a shot of whisky. 187 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,319 It is a bitter and electrifying vision of the future. 188 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,039 Turn around. Start back to the island. 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,079 Guards on board confirm the kill. 190 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,720 "Circle to base, over." 191 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,679 Security, this is Rehme, we have confirmation we've got them. 192 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:55,959 We have a kill at mid harbour south of the battery, 193 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,799 two in the water dead. 194 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,399 "Two confirmed." Very well. 195 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,159 Following a movie-mad childhood in New York, 196 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,479 John Carpenter went West to study film. 197 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,159 He dreamed of making westerns 198 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,759 in the mould of his hero, Howard Hawks, 199 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,959 but that horse had bolted Hollywood. 200 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,399 And with the success of slasher classic Halloween, 201 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,119 Carpenter became known as the horror guy. 202 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,319 He was far more versatile than the label suggests, 203 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,679 using genre to turn a sharp eye 204 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,879 on both America and the human condition. 205 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,239 He did end up dropping out in his last semester 206 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,519 in order to go ahead and make a feature film, 207 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,399 but he very much brings 208 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,239 that generation's film school mentality to his work 209 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,999 because he has both the spirit of that sort of '60s, '70s, 210 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,439 grab a camera, make something low budget, 211 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,079 make something kind of grimy, 212 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,319 but also this complete obsession 213 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,039 with the studio, Hollywood filmmakers of the past. 214 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,799 John Carpenter's preoccupations are many and varied. 215 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,319 In a sense, he is extremely interested in 216 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,639 masculinity at the frontier, I suppose, you could say that. 217 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,159 He is very paranoid. 218 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,599 I mean, I guess a lot of his films are about 219 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,039 fear and paranoia and looking over your shoulder. 220 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,679 He does not like to overwhelm you with violence, 221 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:20,919 but he likes to make you feel deeply unsettled in his films, 222 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,999 so that you're always convinced that something bad is about to happen, 223 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,719 so he's very good at teasing. 224 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,639 And he's satirical 225 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,399 in a dark way about whatever he thinks 226 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,119 is particularly atrocious about the times, 227 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,119 whether that be in the case of Escape from New York, 228 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,319 when he wrote it, Watergate and President Nixon, 229 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,039 or through to the excessive consumerism of the '80s 230 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,599 in films like They Live, he always... 231 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,879 He was never making his films a story in isolation, 232 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,759 it was always commenting on the time that he was writing the script. 233 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,639 In recent months, members of my administration 234 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,159 and officials of the committee for the re-election of the President, 235 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,999 including some of my closest friends 236 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,319 and most trusted aides, 237 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,279 have been charged with involvement 238 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,200 in what has come to be known as The Watergate Affair. 239 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,359 These include charges of illegal activity 240 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,199 during and preceding the 1972 Presidential election, 241 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,999 and charges that responsible officials 242 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,279 participated in efforts to cover up that illegal activity. 243 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,999 Originally written in 1974, 244 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,399 Escape from New York was a conscious response 245 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,039 to Vietnam, Watergate and the Nixon Administration. 246 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,519 Fuelled by the rise of vigilante pictures such as Death Wish. 247 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,759 By disguise, it was also a western. 248 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,679 The tale of amoral outlaw, "Snake" Plissken, 249 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:44,559 who is tricked by the authorities 250 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,359 to cross into the urban chaos of Manhattan, 251 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,399 and rescue the President. 252 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,879 Carpenter wrote the first draft of Escape from New York 253 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,279 at film school in the mid-70s in Los Angeles. 254 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,879 And it was a result of various things. 255 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,639 It was certainly a result of 256 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,519 the fall of Nixon and the Watergate scandal, 257 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,399 because that had affected, you know, a great deal of Americans anyway. 258 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,879 And he was, sort of, raging at that, 259 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,879 the betrayal of the nation by the President. 260 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,079 But also, he had seen... 261 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,319 you know, America was in a recession, 262 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,679 it was- it was in a very difficult position at that time, 263 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,599 and he was being influenced by all kinds of things going on around him. 264 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,839 And I think that he used Escape from New York 265 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,119 as a kind of metaphor 266 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,840 for the imploding elements of American society. 267 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,559 By the time he actually got around to making it, of course, 268 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,199 which was 1980-1981, 269 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,199 it was actually even more relevant. 270 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,559 I believe they should impose the death penalty 271 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,079 as an option to judge and jury, 272 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,879 and I believe they should use it... 273 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,559 Mayor Koch is asking the Federal government for help 274 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,719 in this war against drugs and a Federal death penalty 275 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,879 for drug dealers. 276 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,359 He says the city will do whatever it can, 277 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,279 but an epidemic is an epidemic, 278 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,319 and an epidemic of crack in New York is now out of control. 279 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,199 Deemed too violent and weird by the nervy studios, 280 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,319 the script lay dormant for years. 281 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,399 Meanwhile, Carpenter made a succession 282 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,319 of independent genre hits. 283 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,759 Not only Halloween, but Dark Star, 284 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,959 Assault on Precinct 13, and The Fog. 285 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,599 Alongside his producing partner, Debra Hill, 286 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,359 he could work miracles on a small budget. 287 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,839 Finally backed by Joseph E. Levine's 288 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,079 canny Indy AVCO Embassy Pictures, 289 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,319 Escape from New York was science fiction 290 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,800 with a startling emphasis on character. 291 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,039 You mentioned Debra Hill, but how important is she? 292 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,959 She's his producing partner right from the beginning of his career. 293 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,879 How important is she to the success of that time? 294 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,159 I mean, she's not just his producing partner, 295 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,879 she's his co-writer, she's occasionally second unit. 296 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,559 In the first Halloween, 297 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,519 her hands are the young Michael Myers' hands, 298 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,759 she's absolutely hand-in-hand with him. 299 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,479 They had a relationship which was more than working for a while, 300 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,519 but when that stopped, they continued to work incredibly well together. 301 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,559 She's very good... She, if you like, 302 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,999 they are... They work so well together 303 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,679 that it's almost hard sometimes to work out exactly where 304 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,879 he stops and she begins. 305 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,359 She is, again, also equally involved in identifying 306 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,679 James Cameron as a talent. 307 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,719 They're both very good at spotting these people. 308 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,759 And which one of them was it who spotted Jamie Lee Curtis? 309 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,039 Well, possibly Debra Hill, but maybe not, you know, 310 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,759 she's just able... also able, I think, 311 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,559 and this is one of the crucial points, working with Debra Hill is, 312 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,999 she's very good at encouraging him 313 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,959 to give female characters 314 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,079 strong motivation, strong roles, 315 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,039 and not just being a boys' director. 316 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,479 So he was a big admirer of Howard Hawks 317 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,399 and there was the Hawksian woman, but he takes that a lot further. 318 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,839 Very few of his female characters 319 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,800 have no agency at all. 320 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,279 We got a deal somewhere else. 321 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,439 No glider. 322 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,439 We've got the President, 323 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,719 and the Duke's taken everybody out of here. 324 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,560 Never happen, baby. 325 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,440 You see, I know something you and the Duke don't know. 326 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,399 Only got so long before Mr President doesn't mean a whole lot. 327 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,000 You're lying. 328 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,439 Maybe he's not. 329 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,159 Despite pressure to cast Charles Bronson or Tommy Lee Jones, 330 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,279 Carpenter fought for Kurt Russell, 331 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,799 who had led his excellent television biopic of Elvis. 332 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,719 Indeed, there is something of Elvis in Snake. 333 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,199 Russell was eager to rid himself 334 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,399 of a lightweight image left over from his days 335 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,079 as a Disney child star. 336 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,119 It was his idea to give Snake an eye patch. 337 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,359 A director-star partnership 338 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,239 was established as productive 339 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,999 as Scorsese and De Niro. 340 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,559 So, John Carpenter met Kurt Russell 341 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,519 when he cast Russell as Elvis 342 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,839 in the 1979 television film 343 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,079 about the singer, something which might seem 344 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,319 a little unusual for Carpenter's general interest, 345 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,519 but apparently Carpenter was a big Elvis fan 346 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,319 and the two got along very, very well 347 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,839 in spite of the fact that Kurt Russell was really 348 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,039 at that point largely known for pretty light-hearted, 349 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,039 family-friendly Disney films. 350 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,719 You know, a bit of a heart throb, 351 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,559 and yeah, it was kind of perhaps 352 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,239 counter intuitive to cast him in the role of this grizzled, 353 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,959 tough, ex-soldier convict 354 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,079 known as Snake Plissken, wearing his eye patch. 355 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,319 The character of Snake Plissken is fascinating. 356 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,919 In fact, he is based on a real person. 357 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,759 There was a boy, or a friend of a friend of Carpenter's, 358 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,439 who knew a high school boy, a bit of a tough guy, 359 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,679 and his name was Snake Plissken. 360 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,519 And not only that, he had a snake tattoo. 361 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,079 So, Carpenter had actually used that name. 362 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,359 Wonderful. He's basically 363 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,959 a highly-decorated veteran 364 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,359 who had never been sort of 365 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,199 not truly appreciated, especially at the time. 366 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,119 The young generation were protesting against the Vietnam war, 367 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,599 so they felt that they had to find something else. 368 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,559 He simply went to the dark side 369 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,639 and he was involved in a huge robbery and was betrayed. 370 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,799 So he's basically a criminal who, 371 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,759 he was a hero who has now become a criminal 372 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,799 and is about to become, of course, an anti-hero. 373 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,359 Finding the perfect Snake Plissken 374 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:25,279 is the ultimate challenge in terms of getting this film right. 375 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,279 Because you've got to have a character who is essentially 376 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,199 incredibly anti-heroic, 377 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,959 who is misanthropic, 378 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,479 but also, the audience have to root for him. 379 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,719 So you have to have that innate contradiction, 380 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,319 but we are compelled by him. 381 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,999 How did Carpenter find the perfect Snake Plissken? 382 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,719 Up until that point, Kurt Russell had been a child actor, 383 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,719 he had actually met Elvis 384 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,199 when they were working in It Happened in the World's Fair, 385 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,199 and he had worked for Disney, he had been a comedy actor really, 386 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,919 a light comedy actor. 387 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,999 He wanted to shed that. 388 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,599 He wanted to become an action hero. 389 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,119 What I think is... I personally think is critical however, 390 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,959 is that Russell brings with him 391 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,679 that lightness of touch, that slight hint of comedy. 392 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,639 Because, and I think that if you had 393 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,759 a genuinely dark, genuinely psychotic 394 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,639 death wish-style Snake Plissken, 395 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,079 the film would not be as loveable or engaging. 396 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,479 What you have to have is someone who has got an air of comedy, 397 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,040 an air of defeat about him, an air of sort of... 398 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,119 ...empathy based on his... 399 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:31,119 his anti-heroic failure, in a way. 400 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:33,999 There's something about him that is not hard enough 401 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,759 and that's why we really warm to him. 402 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,479 It's kind of a world-weariness - we can all relate to, isn't it? - Yes. 403 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,839 It's a "nothing goes for me." Nothing works, right. 404 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,799 I mean there is... It's almost as if, I mean, 405 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,079 most of the caper that he tries to pull off goes wrong. 406 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,359 He gets lucky in a number of scenarios, 407 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,639 he's absolutely not an Arnold Schwarzenegger-style 408 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,239 "I'm going in, I've got it, I'm taking the President out again." 409 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,759 Snake Plissken was drawn from the heritage of mythic western loners, 410 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,039 such as John Wayne's Ethan Edwards in The Searchers, 411 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,799 or Clint Eastwood's The Man With No Name. 412 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,839 He was also given a dose of John Carpenter's 413 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,519 anti-authoritarian foreboding. 414 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,319 He is a former Special Forces soldier, 415 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,279 disillusioned by the betrayals of the world. 416 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,119 "All that matters to Snake," said Russell, 417 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,279 is the next 60 seconds," 418 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,919 which is exactly what makes him magnetic. 419 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,159 Carpenter had been building a stock company 420 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,479 of salty character actors to fill his gritty violent worlds. 421 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,519 He also wanted an echo of real New York eccentricity 422 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,399 in his rogue's gallery. 423 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,399 So we get Ernest Borgnine as old timer Cabbie. 424 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,119 Harry Dean Stanton as Snake's 425 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,039 treacherous former compatriot, Brain, 426 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,119 and Adrienne Barbeau as tough mole Maggie, 427 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:40,359 with Isaac Hayes as the self-elected Duke of New York. 428 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:43,719 Behind Kurt Russell, there are a whole range 429 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,120 of wonderful cult actors. 430 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,079 We look at Ernest Borgnine, 431 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,319 who was absolutely superb as the cab driver. 432 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,239 We have Isaac Hayes, 433 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,119 who plays the Duke of New York, 434 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,479 basically the sort of self-styled 435 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,119 head of this prison. 436 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:05,519 We have Harry Dean Stanton as Brain, 437 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,999 who is the guy who in fact betrayed Snake Plissken 438 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,599 in the outside world, but he's the one who creates 439 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,639 petrol, gasoline. 440 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,719 We have Adrienne Barbeau as his girlfriend, 441 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,919 and we have most eccentrically of all perhaps, 442 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,279 we have Donald Pleasence 443 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,799 as the President of the United States. 444 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,839 Now, you put all these together and you have probably a sort of... 445 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,639 just a dream cast of cult actors, 446 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,239 all working together for the same reason. 447 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,159 And that, that gives it a kind of new look 448 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,799 because there are no recognisable stars. 449 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,919 He also, because he was a huge fan of spaghetti westerns, 450 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,079 Italian westerns, cast Lee Van Cleef. 451 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,839 Some of them have cars. They took old junkers 452 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,199 that were left behind and converted them to steam. 453 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,839 We think they may also have a gasoline source in there, 454 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,599 and power, you know, greenhouses, rigged-up generators. 455 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,119 Some areas have street lights. 456 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,839 The crazies, they live in the subways. 457 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,839 Complete control of the underground. 458 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,440 They're night raiders. 459 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,719 Tracer, send a radio signal for 15 minutes. 460 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,759 If you push it, we can track you on radar, 461 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,520 just like Leningrad. 462 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,119 Of course, the face of America's police state 463 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,999 was to wear a sneer colder than any behind the prison walls. 464 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,079 Who better than Lee Van Cleef to play Hauk, 465 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,199 the police force commissioner, bringing a reminder 466 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,519 of Sergio Leone's black-hearted gunfighter. 467 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,839 The twist is Donald Pleasence's President is dispensable. 468 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,799 The real target is the tape he carries 469 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,199 containing nuclear secrets that could save mankind. 470 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,559 I think one of the glorious talents that Carpenter has 471 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,359 is his casting, not only Kurt Russell, 472 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:51,599 but if we think about kind of the denizens 473 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,759 of the maximum-security prison, 474 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,239 it's just a wonderful array of great character actors. 475 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,799 Yes, so the Duke of New York is played by Isaac Hayes, 476 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,479 who until that point had been a musician. 477 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,759 He knew that Isaac Hayes had this phenomenal presence 478 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,519 and got him into that role. 479 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,079 Ernest Borgnine as Cabbie, absolutely fantastic, 480 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,759 but he was also, if you look at Lee Van Cleef and Donald Pleasence, 481 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,239 two characters with a strong western tradition 482 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,519 and a strong western history about them. 483 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,279 Pleasence had had a bit of a career dive, 484 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,959 but he had been rescued already by Carpenter in Halloween, 485 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,239 and Lee Van Cleef, again, 486 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,839 these are actors who relished the chance 487 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,159 to try something that wasn't on their usual roster of roles, 488 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,199 and he got great things out of them. 489 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,999 And in a sense, the more baggage they bring, the better. 490 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,639 Yes, I mean because 491 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,479 we know Lee Van Cleef incredibly well, 492 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,520 we know the kind of person he's going to be. 493 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,519 Apart from Liberty Island and a few vistas, 494 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,119 New York was too expensive, and ironically, too modernised, 495 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,119 for the ravaged city that Carpenter had in mind. 496 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,399 So location manager, Barry Bernardi, 497 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240 was instructed to find the worst city in America. 498 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,479 The answer was a patch of East St. Louis, 499 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,239 recently gutted by fire, 500 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,799 and plagued by mosquitoes. 501 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,919 A setting supplemented by truckloads 502 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,199 of wrecked cars and clapped-out fridges from local landfills. 503 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,039 So with a limited budget that they had, 504 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,639 they realised pretty early on that they weren't going to be able 505 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,719 to shoot most of the film in New York city 506 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,239 as originally planned. It was too expensive, 507 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,079 it was too difficult to get permission, 508 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,079 and also the state of degeneration that the city had to be in, 509 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,559 even though it was early '80s late-'70s New York 510 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,639 and it looked rough, it didn't look rough enough 511 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,879 for it to be this dystopian environment. 512 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,599 It was going to cost too much for them 513 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,039 to make it look that bad, essentially. 514 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,399 And so the production team went on a tour, 515 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,119 which they were amused to refer to afterwards 516 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,919 as a tour of all the worst cities in America, 517 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,919 to try and find some place that looked bad enough 518 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,319 for them to, you know, make it sort of dupe New York. 519 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,679 Eventually, they landed up on East St. Louis, 520 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,479 which had a lot of derelict buildings 521 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,799 and had a lot of buildings that looked like they could be New York buildings, 522 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,079 and also, crucially, back in '76, 523 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,239 it had a really bad urban fire, 524 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,999 and so that kind of allowed them the location 525 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,759 to create New York, 526 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,519 and it's pretty amazing that they do so because, you know, 527 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,039 aside from not seeing too many famous landmarks, 528 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,039 you do really believe that it is Manhattan. 529 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,799 Not only was it... did it already exist, 530 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,639 all they had to do was sort of throw a few 531 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,799 crashed cars on the street, light a few braziers here and there, 532 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,239 and you had your dystopia, you had your... 533 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,239 your wonderful sort of set. 534 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,359 It was there. It already existed. 535 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,759 Because they allowed them 536 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,199 to film at night, 537 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,079 and have complete run of the place, 538 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,879 that was a great gift, it means that they, 539 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,319 Carpenter and his crew and the actors, 540 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,439 could actually do pretty well what they liked there. 541 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,999 And you know, at the end of it, they cleaned up the streets, 542 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,239 they took all the stuff out that they had thrown onto it, 543 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,919 like sort of smashed-up televisions, cars all over the place, 544 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,959 and finally, it was regenerated. 545 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,319 It was a fittingly gruelling production. 546 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,959 Almost the entire shoot took place by night, 547 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,479 with St. Louis agreeing to turn off 10 blocks of electricity. 548 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,719 For almost two months, they barely saw daylight. 549 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,999 This is a hybrid of noir and science fiction, 550 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,759 set in the parody of society 551 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,879 as formed in the rubble of New York. 552 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,599 The inmates may be running the asylum, 553 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,399 but they haven't quite let go of the Big Apple. 554 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,759 So, how does a filmmaker 555 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,679 go about creating a dystopian New York? 556 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,759 Well, they can't get into New York for a start. 557 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,399 I mean, surprisingly, and this is testament to how much 558 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,479 of a golden tongue John Carpenter must have had, 559 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,359 they were the first film 560 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,639 to shoot on the island that had 561 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,479 the Statue of Liberty. - Liberty Island. - Yes. 562 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,879 So they did get onto that part of New York, 563 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,319 and that allows them to set up the fact 564 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,039 that we believe they're in New York. 565 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,719 The rest was done with models, special effects, and an enormous, 566 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,519 an absolute wreckage of a quarter of a city. 567 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,359 And the city authorities were very, very obliging, 568 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,559 so the film production company 569 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,199 bought a bridge off them for a dollar, 570 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,039 and sold it back to them at the end of filming. 571 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,999 They asked the city if they would mind turning off the lights 572 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,279 during the night so they would... 10 blocks apparently, yeah. Yes, absolutely. 573 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,319 And so they then dressed it to look like New York. 574 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,599 There's a brief reference in fact at one point, 575 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,959 something terrible in Plissken's past happens in St. Louis, 576 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,839 which I think is their affectionate tip of the hat to the city, 577 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,279 but yeah, it was basically, they found those parts of that city 578 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,039 that looked a little bit like New York and shot it there. 579 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,119 And it was a gruelling shoot, because effectively 580 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,199 I think 80% of it was done by night. 581 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,799 They barely saw daylight. 582 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,999 I mean most of it, yeah. I can't think of... 583 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,879 I can't think of any sequence off the top of my head, I'm sure there are. 584 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,039 There's a sequence where helicopters land in Central Park briefly. 585 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,439 Yes. But almost everything else is shot at night. 586 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,119 It was very important for Carpenter, who was very detail-oriented, 587 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,719 to make sure that they got the special effects right. 588 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,759 He originally wanted computer graphics, 589 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,679 but he bumped up against the kind of budget limitations 590 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,479 that he bumped up against before. 591 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,519 So he did the next best thing, which was turn to a really kind of 592 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,319 cracker-jack team of special effects people, 593 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,919 including some people from Roger Corman, 594 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,639 the legendary producer's own company. 595 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,599 There are basically two environments in Escape From New York. 596 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,519 There's, of course, the interior of the prison 597 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,319 and then there's the outside world, which is high-tech, 598 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,239 it's very clean, it's very sort of, you know, sterile, 599 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,279 and the chief commissioner, played by Lee Van Cleef, is... 600 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,319 I mean, he looks more like a villain. 601 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,759 He's dressed entirely in black, he's got a sort of wonderful 602 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,039 shiny earring in his ear, and he is absolutely corrupt. 603 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,279 He lies straight away to Plissken, 604 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,239 he gets him, he virtually blackmails him 605 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,439 into taking on this sort of task, 606 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,399 suicidal task, 607 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,719 like a sort of one-man dirty dozen, as it were, the dirty one, 608 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,519 and then says, "Oh, I've just got to put something here. 609 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,199 It's an anti-venom device, 610 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,359 so in case anybody tries to poison you in there." 611 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,319 And in fact, it's not. They're two miniature bombs, 612 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,199 which are timed to go off within 24 hours. 613 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,319 So then, not only do you have the fact that he's lied to him, 614 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,679 that he's actually pressurised him into doing this, 615 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,119 but then, of course, you've got the ticking clock, 616 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,079 which, you know, ramps up the action even further and the suspense. 617 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,039 In an interesting way, what is going on is that, 618 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,839 within the walls of the prison, they are rebuilding society, 619 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,159 they are rebuilding New York. There's a kind of charming sense of, 620 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,399 they can't quite let go of the Big Apple. 621 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,159 Yes, I mean there is this kind of car that the Duke is in, 622 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,919 which has got chandeliers at the front, there's... 623 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,599 I mean, the cabbie is still driving a cab in the normal way. 624 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,559 What there is, which John Carpenter gets quite early on 625 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,159 in his career from George Romero is the zombie characters. 626 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,719 And so, there are the citizens of New York who are faceless... 627 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,519 The crazies, I think they're called, yeah. 628 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,199 And they are just a threat... they're the real threat, 629 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,839 because they're not really sentient. 630 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,159 All they do is attack and tear apart and kill, 631 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,319 so that becomes... that's the horror film element 632 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,479 and the zombie element. I mean, there is an element 633 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,799 of this film where it's a little bit like a zombie film, 634 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,159 it's a little bit like... It's Carpenter's horror trick. 635 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,479 Yeah. What happens to society when it fully breaks down 636 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,959 and there's a zombie presence there. 637 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,119 But they're not strong enough to be... 638 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,159 They aren't the greatest threat in New York 639 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,159 because New York society has organised itself 640 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,479 over the top of them, and all they've got is tiny corners. 641 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,359 They've got the sewers and Broadway and they've got a couple of places, 642 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,239 but most of the time they don't really have... 643 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,839 they're just what happens if you fall out of the safe zones. 644 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,159 Through brilliant filmmaking sleight of hand, 645 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,279 Carpenter creates a convincing dystopian New York, 646 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,959 extrapolating the breakdown of civilisation. 647 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,919 Using existing architecture, it feels real. 648 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,519 It is significant to note that a young James Cameron 649 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,599 was part of the team hired to provide the visual effects. 650 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,039 Such is the surreal sight of the World Trade Centre 651 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,879 onto which Snake lands his glider. 652 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,960 Right on course. 653 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,359 Carpenter's view of humanity is undoubtedly pessimistic. 654 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,959 As crime soars in America, somewhere in the background, 655 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,199 the Cold War has boiled into World War III. 656 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,039 Yet, the misanthropic presence of Snake is tremendously compelling. 657 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,559 He establishes the film's ice-cool but complex tone. 658 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,639 Here is a man striving to survive in an America 659 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,919 divided between anarchy and fascism. 660 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,879 John Carpenter is one of those genre picture directors 661 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,279 who can actually use the genre to express a wider view, 662 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,919 a more important view, perhaps even deliver a message. 663 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,599 But not so that it becomes 664 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,199 sort of politically in your face, not that it becomes dogma. 665 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,319 He does it in a more subtle way. 666 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,839 He does it through the characterisation. 667 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,359 He does it through the interchange of characters. 668 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,639 You can see why some of them are trustworthy and some aren't. 669 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,759 Something that Carpenter excels at 670 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,199 is taking a sort of disreputable genre, 671 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,559 certainly when he was growing up, science fiction films 672 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,359 and horror films were the stuff of drive-in movies, 673 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,319 they were the stuff of teenagers, 674 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,799 they were not taken seriously, they were never nominated 675 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,079 for Academy Awards or anything like that. 676 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,079 But Carpenter took them seriously enough 677 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,599 to put artistry and care, not only into the technical side 678 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,039 of their visuals, how they look, the effects, 679 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,319 but also in terms of their messaging. 680 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,599 He also came up at a time when, you know, 681 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,639 things were very tumultuous and he had strong views 682 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,479 about the way the country was being run. 683 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,039 You see that fully with the film which is explicitly political 684 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,919 with They Live in 1988, 685 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,279 but Escape From New York has elements of that too. 686 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,079 It has elements of deep cynicism about the powers that be. 687 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,319 Carpenter again proved that his brand 688 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,079 of tight and thrilling independent cinema 689 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,119 could thrive in the mainstream. 690 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,279 On a budget of 7 million dollars, 691 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,839 the film would make nearly 26 million. 692 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,639 He had forged a grown-up, genre-based storytelling 693 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,239 that appealed to large audiences. 694 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:08,519 Critics got onboard too. 695 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,239 Etched in satire, 696 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,919 Escape From New York is a commentary on the nature of freedom. 697 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,919 In what sense do you feel that Snake Plissken, 698 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,799 although played by Kurt Russell, 699 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,279 is kind of channelling John Carpenter? 700 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,079 I think there is a very strong argument again to be made 701 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,199 that this film is an analogy for the making of this film, in a sense. 702 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,159 I mean, if you think of Plissken as being Carpenter, 703 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,399 weaving his way through all this chaos and confusion, 704 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,359 trying to put together what he can to make things go 705 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,759 according to plan, and all around him the sort of wall 706 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,999 of disapproving Hollywood who really want nothing to do with him, 707 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,039 making devil's bargains with him that he knows he can only... 708 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,679 he can't get anything out of, I think he identifies very closely. 709 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,519 I think it was either... I think it was Debbie Hill who said 710 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,399 it was really hard to be sure where Plissken ends 711 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,039 and Carpenter begins, that he wrote himself 712 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,359 very strongly into that character. And there's this wonderful motif 713 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,999 of Plissken constantly having to make things up as he goes along. 714 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,079 The situation falls apart and he has to kind of redo his plan. 715 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,359 Which is how he made, how John Carpenter made films. 716 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,679 Everything about that is how John Carpenter made films. 717 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,519 And he was... It's not quite autobiographical, 718 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,319 but it's very much about himself, 719 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,479 and the problems of being an independent filmmaker. 720 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,919 Escape From New York does serve as a kind of, 721 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,559 like a lot of the great science fiction really does, 722 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,399 as a kind of vision of the future 723 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,479 which is what we don't want to happen, right? 724 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,119 We don't want things to continue along this track. 725 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,239 And you know, you see that certainly in this film, 726 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,119 which imagines the crime rate just going up and up and up and up 727 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,359 until it becomes completely unmanageable. 728 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,279 And so, it is a situation which 729 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,839 you can respond to by either saying 730 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,319 you get authoritarian forces to come in and completely crush the city, 731 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,399 which is kind of what, I think, were it up to the President, 732 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,119 that's, you know, of the film, that would be what would happen. 733 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,079 But Snake Plissken is a different force in that film. 734 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,919 Snake Plissken is suggesting there is still hope for this place. 735 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,119 We all enjoyed it at the time because it seemed like 736 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,239 it had come out of absolutely nowhere, you know? 737 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,719 We had never seen anything quite like it, in style, 738 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,119 in content, in... It was enormous fun too. 739 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,159 I mean, it's just enormous fun. 740 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,119 In retrospect, because of the nature of what it's dealing with, 741 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,759 society hasn't changed that much. 742 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,599 It's sort of moved and shifted, but it's... 743 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,279 the elements of Escape From New York 744 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,799 are still with us, they're still relevant. 745 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,759 The warning signs should still be with us. 746 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,319 And I think that that is a mark of 747 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,479 not only its just... maybe accidental longevity, 748 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,639 but the fact is that he got it right first time around. 749 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,999 Without question, Escape From New York 750 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,319 is one of the most influential science fiction films ever made. 751 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,759 We feel its gimlet-eyed view of the world 752 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,719 in Fight Club, The Matrix, The Minority Report and more. 753 00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:01,319 Cameron based much of The Terminator on this cult New York thriller. 754 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,559 His cyborg assassin was modelled on the nerveless Snake. 755 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,279 And Carpenter replayed its themes throughout his career 756 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,799 in films such as The Thing and They live. 757 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,559 So if you can, 758 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,479 give me an idea of how important a film, 759 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,319 a science fiction film, Escape From New York is now. 760 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,799 You know, in terms of the 80s, in terms of genre, 761 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,159 in terms of its influence, but just the fact 762 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,079 that we're still talking about it so many years later. 763 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,159 I think that Escape From New York 764 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,959 is one of the most important science fiction films of that era. 765 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,959 There are a couple. There's... 766 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,159 I guess, Star Wars stays in its own lane a lot. 767 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,639 What Escape From New York does is it creates almost everything else. 768 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:47,079 It creates that idea of the hero in the dystopia, 769 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,199 tough guy with an edge or with humour or off-beat lines, 770 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,999 the idea that hero or the villain always has to be a little bit funny, 771 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,959 so that seriousness of the 70s is killed by Escape From New York, 772 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,239 and there is that constant comedy. 773 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,239 I mean, the Schwarzenegger lines from Terminator 774 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,679 come from the comedy of Snake Plissken. 775 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,519 And on it goes through all of those heroes, really, 776 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,319 that it redefines science fiction. 777 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,879 I mean, I think that science fiction had never been like that. 778 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,239 Escape From New York kind of provides a template in some ways 779 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,239 for countless action and sci-fi movies, 780 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,999 not just sort of throughout the 80s and 90s, 781 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,839 but going forward to today. I mean, how many films in your life 782 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,919 have you seen where it opens with some sort of text 783 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,919 about a future year 784 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,759 and the fact that society has fallen into some sort of anarchy 785 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,679 or dystopia as a result of war, or the breakdown of resources? 786 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,399 And then our characters are set against this backdrop 787 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,559 to go on a rescue mission, 788 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,519 or to get an important kind of resource. 789 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,839 I mean this is all so familiar, it feels like a cliche. 790 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,319 But Escape From New York is one of the first films 791 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,319 to really do that and to really commit to that premise. 792 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,519 There is no doubt that Escape From New York 793 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,559 was a blueprint for... 794 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,999 the kind of films that came out that showed 795 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,679 a renegade figure fighting authority 796 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,479 and fighting the establishment. 797 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,879 Certainly in terms of a particular environment, 798 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,879 whether or not it was dystopian, whether or not it was just 799 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,519 a kind of, you know, an element in a film. 800 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,839 But the... It was the lone figure. 801 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,999 This was it. It absolutely goes right back to the western again, 802 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,679 but what Carpenter did 803 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,639 was to create a kind of new side to this genre. 804 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,519 It's the antithesis of every single Hollywood hero's journey. 805 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,599 There is no hero's journey. He is Snake Plissken. 806 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,399 He remains... He remains unmoved. 807 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,799 Like the dude, you know, nothing has changed for him. 808 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,319 He's gone through the most outrageous and extreme 809 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,759 series of circumstances and he comes out 810 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,279 and he is exactly the same as he was when he went in. 811 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,719 He did the deal, he fulfilled his half of the deal, 812 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,719 and that's it, won and done. 813 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,039 And I think that that's... there's something about that 814 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,159 that you just don't expect because you always expect 815 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,359 the final ten minutes of the film to be the redemption sequence, 816 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,079 to be the... "Ah, he's a good guy after all," 817 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,399 or "Ah, look, he cares about the humanity or the world." 818 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,719 And you go, "No, no. Absolutely not. 819 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,679 He doesn't care, he's just Snake Plissken." 820 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,839 As well as being a dystopian landmark, 821 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,159 Carpenter's inverted prison movie 822 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,079 is part of a wave of Vietnam-influenced, 823 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,159 anti-establishment classics. 824 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,519 The disillusionment of Easy Rider, 825 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,559 One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, or Taxi Driver. 826 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,519 In a sense, his work owes more to the 70s than the 80s. 827 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,919 The perfectly nihilistic ending 828 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,239 sees Snake Plissken destroying the crucial tape 829 00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,560 and striding into the night. 830 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,560 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky